For one thing, I didn’t realize that people were so offended that they tried to indignantly write ships I said I thought were bad. Good for you, man. What I saw was very funny. Crack can be great stuff, but it’s so dependent on being related to something. Subversion and the unexpected are the backbone of humor, after all. And this crack was related not merely to the source material but to a couple of things I happened to mention. A gold star for everybody.

For another, I didn’t realize people don’t know the difference between an elitist and a purist. I am only a little of a purist, but apparently a full-blown Taniquetil elitist fartnugget, which is to say: I don’t have a problem with genderbending, AUs, or whatever. Just so long as there is method to the madness, and the method is relevant to the beginning as to the end.

syrisa:

Thankfully my urge to write Celegorm/Aredhel or Morgoth/Sauron is nil despite my ultimately vindictive personality. Even farts in the bath farting cannot stir me to write Notps. However I will remind the fandom at this moment that I once wrote Fingon/Maedhros with past Fingon/Maedhros/all the brothers, and implied future Fingon/Maedhros/Maglor threesomes.

You’re welcome.

 

You sound hilarious and a man or woman or person who is neither of the above of honor. I’m assuming that you applied the sort of sense of humor you display in this post in what you wrote, of course. In any case I’m flattered that you care about what this fartnugget thinks.

(Reblogged from syrisa)

irvinglegend:

silevril:

irvinglegend:

silevril:

Come on, you know all your faves were too.

I take full credit for this beautiful work

Ah, I knew I should have insisted my friend put that little trademark symbol on it! :P

It sucked. You know, I like this URL and avatar. This is so totally a permanent sideblog.

Noooooooooo, you took my punk emo band name WHAT WILL I DO???

(Reblogged from )

Anonymous said: Okay, I'll bite. What makes Maedhros/Fingon the worst ship ever? Are you just opposed to the idea of shipping as a fannish activity (you'd rather explore the canon from other angles), or do you ship a different type of pairing?

I’ll be honest, I ship little that’s not canon (also, if anyone could tell, I was trying for some degree humorous exaggeration when I ragged on the ship). The short version is that Maedhros/Fingon as an ultimately platonic relationship is more interesting and textually relevant (and, sigh, that’s not because homosexuality has no place in canonically-relevant shipping). I guess you could say I do ship it platonically, but generally that’s not what you see. Fingon doesn’t rescue Maedhros just because he loves him (which he does); he also does it because nothing else will bridge the schism between the hosts of Feanor and Fingolfin which will doom all the Noldor. Their reconcilitation is not only about personal reconciliation, in which case the argument would probably be as strong for a romantic bent, but also about standing up for collective reconcilliation. Their sacrifices are as much in the name of collective national hope and rekindling of Noldorin friendship as in the name of personal friendship; their unity is one of friendship and cooperation. Their angst isn’t romantic angst because it’s a facet of the angst of all the Noldor, which is I guess platonic angst. I wrote a little analysis a while back that sort of covers how the narrative emphasizes what they do and why they do it.

http://silevril.tumblr.com/post/59545543842/so-lets-talk-about-fingon-and-maedhros-meta

irvinglegend:

silevril:

Come on, you know all your faves were too.

I take full credit for this beautiful work

Ah, I knew I should have insisted my friend put that little trademark symbol on it! :P

(Reblogged from )

Come on, you know all your faves were too.

Aha!

dawnfelagund:

silevril:

vefanyar:

silevril:

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

How big of you. But I don’t really think you get how this works. Fandom is not a bunch of trained monkeys that exist to please you in exchange for the odd peanut tossed their way. When vefanyur suggested that you “encourage others,” she didn’t mean “state your preferences and shoo us off to get busy on your demands.” It meant to do the time-consuming work that many of us have been doing just about every day for years of actually building a fandom community where people who post what we enjoy reading feel not only welcome but appreciated for what they do. That means writing the kinds of stories you want to see—because every fanon started somewhere, usually with someone as passionate about their particular view of Arda as you appear to be about yours—but most of all commenting on, reccing, and otherwise making authors writing the kinds of stories you want to read feel like their work is loved. Because I cannot tell you, in my almost decade in this fandom and running a website for this fandom for most of that decade, the number of authors I have seen quit or just drift away because they felt no one was listening.

But here is what I see: I just checked the Silmarillion Writers’ Guild, Faerie, Many Paths to Tread, Stories of Arda, the Henneth-Annûn Story Archive, and AO3, and I didn’t find your name on any of them. Now maybe you participate on archives under a different name; a lot of Tumblr users do. But looking back at your last two months of entries even here on Tumblr, I don’t see much fannish being said or done either until this little wank you decided to start up because, from what I’m seeing, you are sitting silently in a corner somewhere and pissed off that people aren’t 1) reading your mind and 2) rushing back and forth knocking into each other as they try to please you. Because you seem like such a charming individual. I’m sure subcreation stories will become the new thing because of you.

Here’s a thought: rather than spewing hateful little nuggets out onto Tumblr about what people are doing wrong, why not use that same time and energy to find someone doing something you like—because no matter how dismissive you are of this fandom, there is tons being done “thematically and characterizationly” (???), including about subcreation—and leave them a comment or send them a PM or rec their story or reblog their post or do something positive and constructive? In the time you’ve wasted on this thread, which originated because people were having fun with stuff you don’t like, you probably could have read and commented on five stories. But where’s the fun in that.

Dawn Felagund, I’m truly sorry that you and many others interpreted one short post of mild, tongue-in-cheek annoyance as some sort of deep-seated complex and need for people to cater to my whim. Happily I happen to have fandom-like outlets for my fandom-like material, just like you do (and I do still write occasionally). I find the state of the fandom at large, such as it is, to be both a little funny and a little sad, is all. You also may have read too much into my sarcasm. I mean, I also invited people to send me prompts, in an honest and sarcasm-free attempt to have some constructive fandom fun. One of them was a Maedhros/Fingon/Azaghâl coffee-shop AU, not something I’d have come up with myself. I wrote it. It was pretty stupid, as a fic, but the prompt was trying for something different, and I tried to deliver in a way that might possibly provide some entertainment.

Oh Dawn Felagund, if you only knew the hours of enjoyment I and one of my friends have obtained fromAnother Man’s Cage.”

(Reblogged from dawnfelagund)

Aha!

vefanyar:

silevril:

[Sniipppp].

[snip]

To turn this discussion constructive, I’m genuinely interested in why you feel that “female characters are invisible except for reproduction and inspiration of men, not, y’know, suited for anything else without various massive disclaimers”. I feel that’s a very reductionist perspective that ignores women who were creative forces in their own right, who had their own storylines, desires, goals, pursuits, what-have-you, that were variously masculine, feminine, and everywhere in between, strong and less strong. Doubtless there are issues related to what you discuss, exacerbated by Christopher Tolkien’s redaction, at least in the Silm version (Nerdanel and Míriel come to mind as having large swaths of written character development left out, but I haven’t done a good overall reading recently), but they don’t seem to change that fact. Variously we have characters dealing with more and less sexist societies (Erendis much?). We have a number of female characters exploring what masculinity has to offer them, and they come through with some different, personal answers (compare Haleth to Galadriel to Éowyn to Tar-Ancalimë, perhaps compare Aredhel or Niënor as well). This aside from characters like Morwen and Nerdanel, whose motherhood and femininity are generally neutral forces in relation to their effective leadership and creative drives. This aside fromLúthien, Melian, Idril as characters highly important outside of reproduction and inspiration of men, doing important things and asserting their own agency, though all three engage in both of the above as well, obviously. There are plenty of good questions as well (were Amanian societies sexist or not particularly? Does the narrative implication that Silmariën’s line was the truest royal line lend weight to the idea that the narrative view egalitarianism in inheritance is ideal?). It’s all far from perfect, but there’s plenty of interesting material not to be dismissed here, I feel.

(Reblogged from vefanyar)

Aha!

vefanyar:

[Snip, we’ve all read it]

1. There’s constructive and unconstructive transformation (in addition to unconstructive and constructive affirmation), and the balance relates at least in part to attitude. I was and am dissatisfied with some of the aspects of the fandom that you seem to label transformative because as far as I can see they are far too often ultimately dismissive of what there may be of value in the original works, which I find unconstructive.

2. If you think my problem with Maedhros/Fingon, Celegorm/Aredhel, or Sauron/Morgoth as ships is the buttsex, potential of buttsex, or homosexuality, that’s simply not the case. I wish I knew why anyone who discussed my posts made that assumption.

3. I genuinely didn’t mean the name-drop to be pedantic or whatever - when reading the poem, it occurred to me that it mirrored the duality and dichotomy drawn by the figure I mentioned, between the secular, scientific, dominion-oriented (possibly answer-oriented) outlook of Man and the religious/spiritual, mystery seeking (possibly question-oriented) instinct and need that he labels homo religiousus. But as you’re not interested, I’ll leave it at that.

4. You didn’t give my very general opinion about gender issues in the source material any respect; I can’t imagine what further I can say to someone enjoying an echo chamber on that point except that to me, at least, that response is emblematic of the dismissive approach that I find unconstructive, and that in this instance it was certainly unconstructive.

5. I think University of Arda once reblogged something of mine … I think I remained frustrated, but I may go back and look again someday; who knows.

(Source: silevril)

(Reblogged from vefanyar)

Anonymous said: In light of your aha moment, a prompt: Fingon/Maedhros/Azaghâl, coffee-shop au

You’ve chosen one thing I must be horrible at, the coffee shop AU. Here we are.

Read More

sigridhr:

silevril:

tolkienshower:

Aha!

vefanyar:

silevril:

[…]

[…]

[…]

OK, OP, I’mma explain you a thing since apparently you don’t get it:

The Tumblr tagging system is a means of organizing information so that people who share interests can find things from people who are also interested in participating in the thing

You are not interested in participating in the thing, since your entire post was an excessively pompous way of saying you think the Silm fandom is not to your tastes because we’re putting the toys in naughty positions or something

Therefore, your post did not belong in the tag because it was not for people interested in the thing

So, you intentionally went out of your way to tell a group of people who you deliberately have chosen to distance yourself from that you don’t like the way they do things, and expected… what, exactly? 

And really, I’m so overwhelmed by your tragic yet moving tale of not telling your real life friends how stupid you think their interests are. Shockingly, the same basic social niceties are also expected on the internet. That is why you received the response you did. 

I do tell my friends what I think is flawed about their interests, and enjoy discussion and debate about my view there. Politely and with some degree of humor I note these flaws. Which perhaps has not translated well to the internet, where I hoped to get into a discussion or argument about the merits of something or other - hell, I’d have loved a good debate on the merits of Fingon/Maedhros as a ship, speaking as someone who thinks it has none - but instead have found the zealous tag police happy only to tell me that I’m mad cause I’m bad and possibly a sexist colonialism-apologist (but we’ll never know).

(Reblogged from sigridhr)

tolkienshower:

Aha!

vefanyar:

silevril:

I now remember why I generally stay far far away from the Silmarillion &c. fandom(s).

Somehow the least thematically and characterizationly interesting things dominate (can’t remember the last time I saw the term subcreation, for one). Also, and not to name…

I’m not used to repost and add personal comments, but this time I think it might be useful.

I see the reasons of this complaint, but for everyone out there who find annoying certain ships, slash and themes others love to talk about. Why bother yourself like this? You’re some member of Tolkien himself’s family and feel offended? If so, say it out loud, I bet everyone would just stop and listen (even if it were the case, I’d love to ask you one or two question about the last PJ’s movies…).

I speak as a Tolkien purist: I absolutely hate Peter Jackson for bringing bad written fanfiction on the big screen with his last trilogy. But I don’t mind AT ALL seeing fics and images on my dash. If other people enjoy seeing those movies in a certain way that I don’t, why should I mind? I have a life over this blog, I have other bussinness to worry about than some stranger’s divertissements I don’t agree with.

If all those ships, fanarts and headcanons made by fans don’t let you sleep at night why don’t you just blacklist them from your dashboard? I really see no point at all in ruining someone else’s joy. Someone else that most likely will feel awful reading your opinion.
I made and upload many years ago a fic, and get only hate in response. I quit writing fics right away and felt awful for a long time.
I might be over-reactive, but if there’s anyone here who felt that awful feeling of being stabbed by your words: you haven’t thaught them NOTHING AT ALL, you have just made them violence.

So please, blacklist them and make everyone the brilliant, magnificent gift of freedom of speech and canons. I don’t think you’re happy complaining on a website no more than we are reading your complaint.

Peace and love, and for everyone who’s been touched by this complaint: you’re doing GREAT thinking with your head, being passionate about every kind of character and sharing your passion and ideas with us all! Keep up!

I don’t know who or what implied that I don’t like Tolkien slash as, you know, a general conceit, given that I didn’t mention it (except that one of the ships I stated I disliked is possibly the most popular slash pairing in the fandom? Oh, I guess Sauron/Morgoth is slash; I don’t even really think of it that way though - Ainur shipping is weird either way, certainly).

Anyway. Why bother myself like this making a brief, very general mutter about something I’m not enchanted with? At that point it’s not a bother to do that. I had no specific stranger or specific fandom work or specific set of them that bothered me when I made that post; there’s just plenty out there. I was and still somewhat am confused at the backlash, as if I insulted someone  or something specific. Except a couple of ships? Which I thought I was being at least slightly tongue-in-cheek about, but you know.

I’m fine with people enjoying things. In real life, I don’t slam people, certainly no individual for liking, say, a television series or book that I think has minimal merit. I’m glad that some of my friends genuinely really loved The Hunger Games despite what I see as enormously bad choices in narrative and characterization. That doesn’t mean I don’t openly critique that book when it comes up, or imply that I think the flaws are really glaring, or that I refrain from saying ‘I honestly think it’s pretty mediocre’. They should go ahead and enjoy it - I can and do still think it’s fairly bad material and express that opinion. If anyone enjoys the Silm fandom here or anywhere, go ahead, enjoy the heck out of it. More power to you. I still think it’s a highly flawed fandom overall and am willing to make even the general statement of that. I think it’s right and good for people to enjoy it as they do; I merely dispute the notion that every instance of being passionate about something in the fandom is a constructive contribution. I certainly cannot give everyone the gift of freedom of speech and headcanons, because it was never mine to give; people obviously have that already no matter my level of annoyance.

I can sleep fine at night, not sure why you asked, or what I said to imply otherwise. Plenty of things mildly annoy me but don’t hurt me; nor do I hurt them but expressing general annoyance, I think. I didn’t imagine there was anyone who would or could feel hurt by a bland statement by someone else that she doesn’t like their ships, or (possibly, given that my other statements couldn’t apply to literally every contribution to the fandom) thought that what they focused on in the fandom was boring. I still don’t think anyone’s been hurt, though I do admit that the righteous indignation towards a laconic Taniquetil elitist has been disproportionate to my expectations.

(Reblogged from tolkienshower)

FINE, LET’S TALK ABOUT SUB-CREATION

heckofabecca:

TALK ABOUT HOW ONLY ERU WAS ABLE TO CREATE FREELY, FOREVER, WITHOUT DIMINISHING HIMSELF — TALK ABOUT HOW MORGOTH’S CREATIONS AND SPREADING OF HIS INFLUENCE DIMINISHED HIM — AND EVEN MÍRIEL’S ‘CREATION’ OF FËANOR TOOK HER LIFE’S ENERGY FROM HER

BUT EVEN SO, NO MATTER THE TOLL THAT CREATION TAKES OUT OF PEOPLE (ELVES, MEN, DWARVES, HOBBITS, ETC ETC), THE THINGS PEOPLE MAKE DOMINATE THE WORLD

HOW OUR GREAT WORKS ARE MORE AWE-INSPIRING THAN WE ARE OURSELVES— THE SILMARILS, THE ARGONATH, KHAZAD-DÛM— AND HOW WITHOUT OUR OWN CREATIONS, WE COULD NOT COMMUNICATE, NOR SURVIVE, NOR FLOURISH

ERU MIGHT HAVE SHAPED THE EARTH AND THE FORMS OF THE BEINGS WHO LIVE THERE

BUT IT’S THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE HERE WHO MAKE OUR WORLD WORTH LIVING IN — and yeah, a world worth dying for, too

(It’s important that only Eru can create freely. When you can create at will, ceaselessly, effortlessly, without the passage of time— the things you make start to lose all meaning. Maybe that’s why Eru doesn’t seem to care.)

Well naturally, given that Eru is literally G-d for the universe such as it is. The ability to create, for finite beings (including Melkor/Morgoth, yes), is in many ways the ultimate ability to relate to Him/serve Him/be close to Him/emulate Him. Possibly that itself is the very reason it’s so precious and drives so much passion. Of course I’m making the assumption that as The G-d of a monotheistic setup Eru doesn’t ‘care’ or ‘not care’, inasmuch as that sort of G-d is pretty much ineffable and ascribing emotion &c. to Him would be a denial of His Unity, for one (though Tolkien was a Christian, though again he rejected the Jesus ending for Middle-earth, I’m speaking mostly from Maimonidean rationalist Judaic thought with significant Greco-Muslim influences on the whole last bit).

(Reblogged from heckofabecca)

I may be a Taniquetil Elitist

But I definitely have a killer url

Aha!

hereff:

silevril:

I now remember why I generally stay far far away from the Silmarillion &c. fandom(s).

Somehow the least thematically and characterizationly interesting things dominate (can’t remember the last time I saw the term subcreation, for one). Also, and not to name names, the popularity of some of the worst ships of all time.

Pity. It’s such excellent material. I guess I’m a picky Tolkien snob, but I guess I’m bad enough to see it as the lesser crime.

Oh honey, don’t flatter yourself too much. I don’t think we want you either ❤️

The problem isn’t whether the fandom wants me - that would be self-flattery. The issue is whether there’s a genuine interest in engaging canon or not. So, you see.

(Reblogged from hereff)